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An
Interview with Catherine Issalys and Mark Warhol By
Lawrence Fuchsberg
French
Canadian flutist Catherine Issalys and American composer Mark Warhol met in
1998 at an eight-day summer course on the music of composer Karlheinz
Stockhausen in Kürten, Germany. Soon afterwards Issalys and Warhol started a
collaboration which produced four major chamber pieces for flute, and led to
the founding of Ensemble Warhol, a group that performs contemporary musical
works for theater.
How is it that two North
American artists happened to meet in a little town outside Köln, Germany? Issalys:
My teacher had worked with Stockhausen and encouraged me to go. I had also
heard Kathinka Pasveer, the principal flutist of the Stockhausen Ensemble, and
thought her playing was wonderful. I went to Kürten to meet other musicians
with an interest in contemporary music. Warhol:
I wanted to hear the music of Stockhausen, which is not often performed in this
country. I had difficulty finding musicians willing to play my music, but in
Germany I found 50 musicians who were enthusiastic about new music.
Why would a musician choose
to concentrate on new music rather than following a more conventional career
path? Issalys:
My first motivation was to find my place among the many flutists at school.
Initially my thought was simply to try something different, but after a while I
really began to enjoy it. Warhol:
There are many young performers looking for ways to distinguish themselves from
others playing the same instruments. New music can provide a way to establish a
musical identity - and there's no reason why you can't also play Mozart.
Describe what went on during
the Stockhausen course. Warhol:
It was non-stop every single day, even though Stockhausen was then 70. The man
is a human dynamo. Every morning there was a three-hour rehearsal, followed by
lunch, and more rehearsal. After a lecture on one of his pieces he ran the
sound and mixing at the evening concerts. So Stockhausen went from 8:00 in the
morning until 11:00 in the evening, day after day. By the end I had lost 20
pounds. Issalys:
The masterclasses held by Kathinka Pasveer were as intense. The rest of us were
exhausted, but Stockhausen never seemed tired.
What was the value of the
program for each of you? Issalys:
The performers there were better than I had heard before. It wasn't only the
playing that impressed me, but the way they executed the dramatic elements that
are so important in Stockhausen's music. I wanted to do pieces with a
theatrical dimension. Warhol:
Stockhausen had created a performing group as a way to get his music before the
public, and after my experience in Germany, I realized I could do the same
thing. That was the origin of Ensemble Warhol. My experiences at the course
gave me a new direction as a composer.
Talk about the beginnings of
your collaboration. Warhol:
I came home with a short list of email addresses, one for this flutist in
Montréal. It took me three hours to write her a message, because I thought I
would be cool and write in French. Issalys:
It took me three hours to read it. Warhol:
We talked about my Crazy Rabbit Songs,
which I was planning to produce and asked Catherine if she were interested in
taking part. She responded positively, and instantly what had been a piece for
soprano and piano became a piece for soprano, piano, and flute. The performance
went well; we kept up a conversation and more projects developed. Issalys:
After Crazy Rabbit Songs came Voyage of the H.M.S. Beagle based on
Darwin's diaries, and then Où est Fleuri
Rose? for flute and harpsichord, and The
Blind Tongue.
Catherine, do you find it
disconcerting to play music you've never heard - music with no performance
tradition? Issalys:
No, I like it. I do think it's important to know the tradition when there is
one. But somehow I find it almost easier to take a new piece and make it mine
when I haven't heard anyone else's interpretation. There's nothing influencing
my playing, and that's liberating. It's also challenging, of course - you need
to be able to work independently.
With so much acting and
movement, memorization must be critical. Issalys:
There's no way you could perform these pieces with a score; there's too much
going on. Certainly it's a challenge to memorize everything, but it adds a lot. Warhol:
These days when I go to concerts I often find myself asking, "Why is that
person hiding behind that giant black music stand?" When there's nothing
intruding between the musician and the listener, the communication feels much
more direct. The performer doesn't look down, but looks straight out at the
audience. This was something I learned at the Stockhausen course. Stockhausen's
music is always memorized, and the effect is overwhelming.
Does the theatricality of a
piece affect the way you practice? Issalys:
When I practice by myself, I don't generally work on movement. Usually I wait
until everyone is together and we rehearse the whole thing. Warhol:
Catherine and her colleagues arrive fully prepared, so the music falls together
very quickly, and we have plenty of time in rehearsal to work on movement.
Often the staging isn't worked out in advance, but is developed
collaboratively.
So the element of movement
in the pieces changes the reason for rehearsals - is most of the
strictly-musical work done prior to rehearsal? Warhol:
Yes. I've learned to pick people I can trust, and then not to micromanage them.
In rehearsals I'll answer questions and make suggestions now and then - but
it's up to Catherine and her colleagues to bring themselves to the piece and
make it their own.
You've had to do some
unusual things in Mark's pieces. Issalys:
Well, first there was the chicken. When I asked Mark about his music, he
mentioned Crazy Rabbit Songs which he
was writing at the time, and said it involved dancing the chicken. I had never
heard of it, so he demonstrated the chicken. I thought it was funny, but little
did I suspect that a few months later I would have to do it myself. When I
received the score, there was the direction to the flutist: "Dance the
chicken." The soprano actually sings the instructions: "Carefully
now: Point both feet left, left hand up and out like a cobra, right palm up,
arms down and behind. Now, do the chicken with your head like Gladys Knight at
Smokin' Pharaoh's Jumpin' Jive. . ." I got scared about what I was going
to have to do, but told Mark, "Oh, no problem."
Was there a problem? Issalys:
I couldn't do it at first, and I practiced over and over. Also, in the same
piece, I had to wear a hat. We worked with the artist Jean Humke, who made
several hats that were very impressive, allowing me to choose the hat that
worked best when playing the flute. For the Darwin piece, I wear a spectacular
dress. In Fleuri Rose, it's mainly a
question of movement: at one point I play while sitting in a lounge chair, at
another while sitting on a kid's truck. Warhol:
Où est Fleuri Rose? starts with the
flutist standing behind the harpsichordist reading over his shoulder as if in a
chamber performance in someone' s house. It was Catherine who had the idea that
the flutist should move behind the harpsichordist in the last movement - a
particularly dramatic gesture. Issalys:
Moving on the stage makes performing a different experience. For me to play and
to be engaged physically at the same time puts me in a different mood; it's
almost like I'm talking to people. I feel much more involved with the music. Warhol:
The staging doesn't have to be elaborate to serve its purpose. For the Darwin
piece, Cathy Gasiorowicz choreographed movement that looked good but didn't
require that anyone be Nijinsky. That's important - you work within people's
limits. If Catherine says, "I can't move in this section because the
passages are too difficult," I respect that.
You've been working together
for well over two years. How has your collaboration affected your flute
playing? Has it had an influence on what you do outside the collaboration? Issalys:
I have more presence on the stage, and my concentration is better. I realized
this when I played the Liebermann concerto last December. I felt confident,
although a few years ago I would have been petrified.
Is it difficult to sustain a
collaboration when you live in distant cities? Warhol:
Without email, our collaboration probably wouldn't exist. We keep in constant
conversation about our collaboration and our lives.
Most new pieces are written
on commission. How does your kind of collaboration differ from the standard
commissioning model? Does it make for better music? Warhol:
It definitely makes for better music. What we do goes much deeper than a
commissioning relationship. Thanks to the feedback I've gotten from Catherine,
I'm much more aware of the peculiarities of the flute - I write better for
other instruments because of that awareness.
Talk a bit about the
politics of collaboration. Your interests can't always be the same; you can't
agree on everything. Warhol:
There's enormous mutual respect, which serves as the foundation of our
relationship. Issalys:
We're friends first, and what we do is rooted in friendship. We also have a lot
of fun; it hardly feels like work. Warhol:
Catherine has performed enough of my music to understand my aesthetic very
well. That breeds trust. That's extremely valuable, because when she says that
something I've written is too difficult, I believe her. Issalys:
When something doesn't work, it's nice to be able to say, "Could you make
a small change here?" Mark is open, and glad to know beforehand if
something isn't going to sound good.
What would you say to
students who might be attracted to new music? Issalys:
Playing new music means you have to work harder at the beginning. It can be
intimidating at first because pieces look difficult on the page and you are
uncertain how they sound. But if you do the work and get past those early
stages, you'll find that it's worth it. It does get easier, although I still
sometimes look at a new score and think, "Oh, that's scary."
What works would you
recommend to flutists interested in exploring contemporary composers? Issalys:
Stockhausen has written so much beautiful music for the flute. Some of his
pieces aren't all that difficult, like Tierkries
[Zodiac], which would be a great place to start. In Freundschaft [In Friendship] is another wonderful piece. I like
Giacinto Scelsci's Pwyll and Tim
Brady's Circling. Then there's a very
nice piece by a French Canadian, Denis Gougeon, called L'oiseau blessé [Injured Bird] which has some unusual effects for
flute but is quite simple. That was the first new piece I worked on and
performed in concert. People loved it. I played it at a masterclass with Aurèle
Nicolet, and all the students who were there immediately wanted to play it
themselves.
What advice would you give
to musicians who'd like to initiate a collaboration similar to yours? Issalys:
Both composers and performers can be very isolated. They should spend more time
with each other, and teachers should encourage this. It would help if composers
would write some easy pieces, so that people could get past their fear of the
new. Warhol:
If you're a performer, I'd suggest going to new-music concerts and searching
for composers whose music sounds fantastic to you. It may take a while - you
don't want to rush it - but eventually you'll come across music that wows you.
Introduce yourself after the concert - get some business cards - or call the
composer up. Say that you're a flutist, that you really enjoyed what you heard,
and that if he writes anything for flute, you'd like to know. Most composers
will be so grateful, you'll be friends for life. Find someone whose music gets
you excited. If there's no excitement, keep looking. It doesn't matter what
style the music is in as long as it speaks to you.
Lawrence
Fuchsberg is a Minnesota-based freelance writer.
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